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 What follows are comments by Sharkhunters Members as well as others who have a comment to make.  If you wish to make your thoughts known, you may email to annkristin.henriksen@fkd.dep.no and you may also copy to the Norwegian Ambassador using this email  osloirc@state.gov  Please keep your comments respectful!

The typestyles and font sizes may vary because we copied directly from the incoming emails without retyping.  Here they are, and there will be more each day as others are received.
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Here is the situation in a nutshel......U-864 was sunk in February 1945 by the Royal Navy Submarine HMS VENTURER off the Norwegian coast and the wreck has recently been found.  According to the manifest of U-864, she was carrying 65 tons of mercury bound for Japan and the Norwegian Government wants to raise the boat to deter any possibility of mercury contamination of the water and seabed.  But there are three major factors to be taken into consideration:
   1.  The remains of the 73 man crew are still aboard - the men are on "Eternal Patrol" and according to some, their
               slumber must not be disturbed;
   2.  Is it really mercury on board?  We have found the several of these big boats (This was Type IX-D2) carried
               uranium consigned to the Japanese army for their atomic bomb but it was carried on the manifest as
               'quicksilber' which means mercury.  There 560 kilos of uranium aboard U-234 but carried on the manifest
               as 'quicksilber' so maybe this is uranium aboard U-864 and not mercury;
   3.  This boat was sunk by torpedo attack of another submarine which blew the boat apart.  Isnt it possible that the
               mercury (or possible uranium) has already been scatted to the currents for some 64 years already?
 
Here are some of the comments we have received - more to follow day by day.  Your comments are welcome.
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John Ried emailed this:

If the Ministry is anywhere close to correct in the estimate of 65 tons of mercury (or possibly other heavy-metal contaminant) aboard U-864, I completely agree that they must act in some way to eliminate the environmental/safety threat, and economic threat to the local fishers. I note that they have assessed the possibility of “capping” the wreck, i.e. burying it in a concrete containment vessel, and have rejected this option. I think that this is the correct decision because such structures will inevitably decay over time. This is of course exactly what has been done at Chernobyl, but the undersea environment is much more corrosive than Ukrainian air and the structure would require ongoing maintenance to be at all effective. In my view, all this is doing is deferring the environmental/health problem, quite possibly to a future where no-one will care about the war dead. Sharkhunters should not advocate in favour of such an option. In principle, I therefore support the proposed actions of the Norwegian authorities.    

However, despite the references of the matter to the respective war graves commissions, what I do not see in the response from the senior advisors is a commitment to respect the requirements which will be stated by those entities regarding honourable re-interment of the war dead. In my view, Sharkhunters should seek to have that commitment made overt, and that it actually happens in due course.   

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Rich Lundin emailed:
Hello Harry,  as a member of your organization for many years I have watched the unfolding of this situation with U 864 with great interest. I have seen the documentary done for television and read what news articles I could find.  I dont think anyone likes the idea of disturbing a war grave. However, in this situation, with the amount of mercury that is potentially sitting there, something must be done.  I would expect the Norwegian government to show great respect for the remains of the souls lost in this wreck site.  But  to do nothing could lead to a real environmental disaster I am afraid.  I think that if the experts agree that a proactive response must be taken, then the future of the living must take precedence over those of the fallen.  Respectfully,  Richard Lundin   member #6713-2003
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American submarine veteran Dieter Rosellen emailed:
If Norway feels the boat is a hazard to sea life it should be raised. We raised the Hunley and provided honorable funeral services for it's crew. Likewise the crew of U-864 should be afforded the same privileges. Anything less would be a travesty. Let's hope they honor the brave war victims whether it be the Norwegians , the German's or the Japanese. I would hope the country's the crew fought for would insure their family's are involved with every aspect of the recovery and burial in their homelands or returned with burial at sea.
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Lars Sunn Pedersen was the guy in charge of raising U-534 some years ago, and he says this:
Dear HARRY !
 
As the leader - and later bystander - of the project of raising U-534, I can inform you that we would never have been able legally to raise the boat if ANY bodies had been on board the German Authorities then informed us. I sincerely hope in this case, that they will still stand firm concerning U-864 !
 
Because - How do they know what is onboard U-864 ?  If they have proof they WILL have to inform for instance SHARKHUNTERS what kind of proof. What else is onboard ? Gold or precious metals ? Or specific secrets still harmful - maybe the excuse to raise the boat lies here ? Inside U-534 we found tons of papers, letters,docu-ments etc.etc. still in absolutely stunning condition ! Remember there will always be airpockets in a wreck like this, even the paint on the ceiling was like new where the airpockets had preserved it !! We found letters from the crew who hide it over the tubes, close to the ceiling absolutely dry and like the day they were hidden there.
 
I think that you should demand to have a representative onboard to check the outcome of the contents, and most of all to check how the crew still onboard will be treated. We cannot just sit and wait. HARRY you must officially claim the rights on behalf of family of the dead crew and ALL members of SHARKHUNTERS  to have ALL informations from the Norwegian Ministery concerning ALL important issues.
 
When we raised U-534 we never expected all the unforseen problems occurring evry day during the raising of the wreck ! If we do not get 100% insight, this "stunt" will raise a lot of questions and rumors afterwards ! I cannot see any reason why we should not have access to the whole operation - before the process - during the process - and after the process !
 
Have they for example any plans for all the important equipment and rare artefacts to restore, preserve and save it for our precious history later, like we did - spending huge amounts to secure the boat and its history. U-534 is to-day a well preserved and well exhibited U-Boat in UK , thanks to 1000`s of people involved.  What would the world say if they scrap U-864 ? It would be like using a coffin from a dead person years later for heating or grilling !!!
 
Hope you can see my point - I am sure that many of our fine members will come up with more interesting issues concerning  "THE RAPE" of U-864!
 
These are my words - I know more about this than the most - and I hope you HARRY will use my name in this sad discussion !
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EDITOR NOTE - Remember, this was a very long-range boat (32,000 miles capability) and she was escaping the falling Reich headed for Japan.  What WAS she carrying?  And is the cargo still intact or was it blasted around the ocean when she was torpedoed?
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Scott Irving emailed:
Scotty here, Captain!

Here is my take on disturbing the dead at sea. Much of the reverance comes from verses in Revelation 20, where the seas are said to give up the dead in them, and I think it has been reasoned by some that therefore, their place of rest at the sea bottom should not be disturbed even as it is with graves on land.

However, Jews used to bury their dead in tombs and let them decay to bones, whereafter, the white bones would be collected and placed in ossuary boxes and labeled/named. it is sometimes needed that a graveyard must be moved so the remains are exhumed and reburied elsewhere as most today do not see a problem with that if respect and care is taken. I agree and say that the  land is for the living.

further, I see any number of ways of caring for the dead as proper in the eyes of God. Cremation, ground burial, the tomb/box thing, and, without considering the environment, sending the remains down river or out to sea. As long as the envirinoment is not substantially impacted as it might be in the Ganges river, I am fine with it.

So for those entombed in the sea, I see no problem with reburial or tranferred burials. Part of why this has not been done before is because we did not have the ability till this last century. In reality, the sae bottom is now a battle field we can access and remains could be gathered and placed in military cemetaries with the rest of the war dead.

Our ever changing world and technology causes us to give more consideration to new impacts and adaptations that must be made or considered. We often have to rethink things. Cutting dead bodies up would have been outrageous once upon a time. but with such sophisticated means of murder available, autopsies are a good idea in my view. As technology and crime escalate, so must our response to those problems.

Now if we could just improve the so called justice systems of the world, what a miracle that would be.

So, as I see it, the reason for disturbance is a valid one. and the disturbance should be allowable and the reamins treated with dignity, which dignity should be decided by German people, particularly soldiers, even as we give such rights to Native Americans and others.
 
And by the way, I agree it is likely Uranium. But Neither is very good resting in the sea. I favor a recovery for environmental sake but also for security sake. Anyone with the right recovery abilities could go down and get it, although few have such ability. that could change. the less death that can be unleashed, the better
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American Veteran Phil Lecroy emailed:
How deep is the uboat resting?  any chance divers could go down and investigate, and actually see whats onboard?  It's been sitting over 60 years in salt water, after having been subjected to being torpedoed, and It's unlikely there is much left, and trying to bring it to the surface will most likely cause the hull to disintegrate, spilling it's contents all over. 
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U.S.. Navy submarine veteran Jimmy Kennedy emailed:
HI HAT; USE MY NAME IN REGARDS TO U-864,ANY WORK ON THAT SUB, MUST TAKE INTO ACCOUNT IT MUST BE HANDLED AS A WAR GRAVE 1ST. THEN AS AN ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEM. SURLY NORWAY AS AWARE OF THIS. REGARDS =T,J,
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From Aissie Charles Dolf:
I totaly agree with Lars Sunn Pedersen.
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from Don Gray:
Harry:
    After 64 years of lying in Davey Jones' Locker, the Norwegian government is worried that U-864's 65 tons of mercury/quicksilver may be leaking and is apt to contaminate the fishing grounds around Norway?!!! Give me a break!  If consumers of Norway's fishing ground products haven't "glowed-in-the-dark" before now (since 1945 when U-864 was sunk), why the sudden rush to judgement to disturb the resting place of seventy-three sailors? Sounds fishy to me. I would think the Norwegian government has more pressing matters to attend to.  Leave U-864's valiant sailors to rest-in-peace on their Eternal Patrol.
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from Cyrus Chun:
I have followed this situation. I read the letter attached and it says a lot, then again, did not cover a lot. Such allegations that the wreck may contain mercury but no proof documenting that mercury  has leaked into the environment – despite the claim that the wreck of U-864 was examined. This would justify what the Norwegians want to do. So, why no definitive proof besides the cargo manifest. On conspiracy theory, this sounds fishy. If the Norwegians are so worried, just raise the ship , exhume the crew remains and rebury them in the German submarine crew cemetery. Then examine and preserve the ship (if possible) for historical purposes. What’s so hard? Maybe the presence of 2 Japanese Nationals have far more sinister implications such as the cargo was uranium and not mercury as claimed on the cargo manifest. And since this was a clandestine operation, would you really list uranium on the cargo manifest,? Have there been any pictures of the boat been taken? Is it in one piece, 2 pieces, many pieces? How do they know 2 Japanese were on board? How many boats were involved in transporting materials between Germany and Japan. Anyway just my 2 cents worth since I don’t have all the facts.
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from Victor Kovach:
         Regarding the raising of the U-864, I agree with the government is something has to be done to protect the environment & the future of our children who may frequent the waters but I also assume that the sub U-864 still remains the property of the German government and it should be their responsibility to oversee the raising of the u-boat and to see that the remains are returned to the rightful country for a proper burial.
 
          If anyone watches the history channel I believe the Odessey found several remains of sunken U-boats and notified the german government and also I believe oit was the Finnish government the found a sunken U-boat that contained a hazardous material and they will try to inclose the sub in concrete to prevent any leakage in the water.
 
           You know yourself if this is allowed to happen with the Norweigen government raising the sub how many treasure hunters and scavengers will be there to rob the boat of her souvenirs and would care less about the dead, I think its disgusting the way some countries forget how these things happen & I believe if it were their dead they would either leave them alone to rest in piece or remove the remains for a proper military burial.
 
           Of course this is only my opinion and being born in 1940 I remember what my father told me about the war and nowdays most of the people could care less of what happened, they say this was over 60 years ago. I wonder if the governments of the world forgets about all the other impurities & materials dumped in the oceans and seas each day that could harm marine life.
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from Jonathan Charnes:
The health of the living must take priority over the the rights of the dead. If there is any chance of mercury on board it must be removed in a manner the experts feel is safest. Already many types of fish are a hazzared to eat due to mercury content.
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from Lars Sunn Pedersen, the man in charge of raising U-534 some years ago:
Dear HARRY !
 
As the leader - and later bystander - of the project of raising U-534, I can inform you that we would never have been able legally to raise the boat if ANY bodies had been on board the German Authorities then informed us. I sincerely hope in this case, that they will still stand firm concerning U-864 !
 
Because - How do they know what is onboard U-864 ?  If they have proof they WILL have to inform for instance SHARKHUNTERS what kind of proof. What else is onboard ? Gold or precious metals ? Or specific secrets still harmful - maybe the excuse to raise the boat lies here ? Inside U-534 we found tons of papers, letters,docu-ments etc.etc. still in absolutely stunning condition ! Remember there will always be airpockets in a wreck like this, even the paint on the ceiling was like new where the airpockets had preserved it !! We found letters from the crew who hide it over the tubes, close to the ceiling absolutely dry and like the day they were hidden there.
 
I think that you should demand to have a representative onboard to check the outcome of the contents, and most of all to check how the crew still onboard will be treated. We cannot just sit and wait. HARRY you must officially claim the rights on behalf of family of the dead crew and ALL members of SHARKHUNTERS  to have ALL informations from the Norwegian Ministery concerning ALL important issues.
 
When we raised U-534 we never expected all the unforseen problems occurring evry day during the raising of the wreck ! If we do not get 100% insight, this "stunt" will raise a lot of questions and rumors afterwards ! I cannot see any reason why we should not have access to the whole operation - before the process - during the process - and after the process !
 
Have they for example any plans for all the important equipment and rare artefacts to restore, preserve and save it for our precious history later, like we did - spending huge amounts to secure the boat and its history. U-534 is to-day a well preserved and well exhibited U-Boat in UK , thanks to 1000`s of people involved.  What would the world say if they scrap U-864 ? It would be like using a coffin from a dead person years later for heating or grilling !!!

Hope you can see my point - I am sure that many of our fine members will come up with more interesting issues concerning  "THE RAPE" of U-864 !
 
These are my words - I know more about this than the most - and I hope you HARRY will use my name in this sad discussion !
 
Kind regards from Denmark and thank you HARRY for ALWAYS being alert and a strong fighter !
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EDITOR NOTE - Your thoughts are welcome here and if you do not want us to use your name, let us know and your name will not be seen.

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Remember - if you wish to contact the Norwegian Government, email them at  annkristin.henriksen@fkd.dep.no and be respectful.
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Combat soldier Martin Fernandez emailed:
                   The nors have open Pandora's box.  If that uboat is raised all hell will b out
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From Author, Statesman and U.S. Army veteran John Hankins:

Harry: One step at a time, "line on line, Order on Order, Precept on precept." Presumption is worthless without investigation, so let's take a peek and access the situation, then -- when back on the surface with what ever observable information was found, let those in charge make their recommendations.  Until then we're wasting our time in rhetoric. John Hankins, Major, USAF, MSC, Reti'd. Author, Cayman Gold, and other literary works.
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from former "Spook" Zel Eaton:

I would think, considering stainless steel containers, that the mercury would be safer for the long haul just left alone! I assumed subs might break apart when torpedoed or hit by gunfire on the surface but to a greater extent would maintain water tight compartment integrity in areas where the hull wasn't directly penetrated. From that perspective I would deduce that if the torpedo hit the compartment where the mercury was stored it would have immediately released much of it into the ocean but, if the boat was hit elsewhere the mercury would remain intact in the containers protected to an some additional extent by the big container (ie the sub). Considering water temps in that part of the world it would seem the mercury containers would be relatively safe for a very long time!
 
I agree your solution re the sub id idea would be more efficient on the web page. A hard copy could come off the web page if desired.
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from Karl Kettler:

As I recall discussing a similar situation with a chemist a few years ago if there is any gradual mercury leakage the salt water will neutralize it.
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from sport diver Dave Bailargeon:
Hello Harry, I am in total agreement with Jonathan Charnes !!  The living are very important.. If they can get 100% proof of hazzardous material, It should be taken care of in a proper maner, and the dead also. I know if I was family, and my Dad was on that U-boat, I would want him buried close to me !  My Dad left on eternal patrol a few years ago, and when I visit his grave, I get this great feeling that I can't explain. But this is only my opinion.. I hope others feel the same. It's really too simple...   Dave.
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from diver Rob Rondeau:
 
As someone well versed in the laws pertaining to shipwrecks, and who continues to work in Norway,  I may be able to help clear up some of the issues surrounding the Norwegian government's plan to remove the U-864 because of the risk to the marine environment it presents.
 
Under international "Sovereign Immunity" a warship, such as a submarine, remains the property of its "flag state" - in this case, Germany.  However, jurisdiction of the wreck equally belongs to the "coastal state," in this case, Norway.  So, Norway has every legal right, under international maritime law, to remove the wreck - especially if it possesses a threat to either that country's population or environment.
 
The mercury aboard the sub was stored in individual capsules in its keel.  Some of these have ruptured and are leaching into the seafloor.  From what I understand, this is why the Norwegians want the sub removed and the wreck site cleaned up.  Fishing, as both an industry and way of life,  is extremely important to Norway.
 
There is no evidence that any uranium was aboard the U-864 (or any other u-boat for that matter).
 
From both a moral and historic perspective, it's important to remember the hardship endured by Norway during WWII.  It was occupied by Germany for most of the war and the Norwegian people sufferred greatly.  U-864's deadly legacy demonstrates this clearly!
 
As per the issue of any human remains encountered, I know that these will be treated with respect by the Norwegians during the salvage operation.
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EDITOR NOTE - We informed Rob of U-234 and her cargo of 560 kilos of uranium, listed as 'queksilber' on the manifest.
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from professional salvage diver Fred Johnson:

As you know there are many sides to the issue of raising U-864 with its crew and cargo. U-864 is a war grave and should be treated with respect and its crew who have been on eternal patrol for 64 years handled with the utmost respect and care. If U-864 must be raised because of the harm its cargo could cause in the future I am sure the crew would agree to a man that this must be done.
Let them sail home in the sun light and be received with flowers and the respect that they deserve , it has been a long patrol and remember they all wanted to come home.
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from Andres Crandall:

Thank you for this email, the mercury/uranium observation is very timely. I think that if they are making a fuss about disturbing this ship now, it is very likely that there is usable uranium on board.

Energy security is a major issue in the EU right now. The UK and French governments have started a pro-nuclear power campaign and have issued sets of statistics seeming to suggest that nuclear power is the energy "of the future."

The problem with their data is that it actually shows that there is not enough quality uranium to support the proposed energy programs, especially if more non-EU nuclear power plants come online. The result will be a huge investment in nuclear power facilities, with an 'unexpected' spike in uranium prices down the road. The Norwegians may be anticipating this, and hence their interest in disturbing the ship.
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from USMC combat veteran Bill Napier:
Lieber Harry, i think Lars is correct,
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from Bill Donegan:
 
I agree with Lars Peterson 100%.  If the bodies of the crew are disturbed I would like to see a COMPLETE funeral for each man either individually or in a common grave.
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again from Martin Fernandez:
 
It might have carried Ur. but still the bones of the crew are there, should we then be witnesses of this insult, just because Norway believes it has some Ur. and it might pollute some Fish.! enough is enough, we must get all members to write to Norway, and get them on the right Track.  No more Disturbing War Graves.
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from Shawn Malone:
 
I recently wrote to Norway's Ambassador to the US, Mr Strommen.  Below is the reply from his office.  While it is a pleasant message, they suggest that I contact the "appropriate governement office".  Of course they do not give me any office name or any direction to take.

Regards,

Shawn Malone

 
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: "Oslo, IRC" <osloirc@state.gov>
To: Shawn Malone
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:56:38 AM
Subject: RE: Attention Ambassador Strommen and Whitney - re: U-864
 

Below is a letter from our Public Affairs Officer, Hilary Olsin-Windecker:

 

Dear Mr. Malone,

Thank you for your letter expressing your concern about the state of the underwater burial site. While sensitive and important, we have discussed this issue with a few different parties and it is clear that the site is in Norwegian waters and any action must be undertaken by the Norwegians. It is a dangerous site due to the presence of mercury and any decision they make will take this safety issue into account. I suggest you take this up with the appropriate government department and ask them for any action plan or decision regarding the site.

 

Hilary Olsin-Windecker
Public Affairs Officer
U.S. Embassy Oslo
Henrik Ibsens gate 48
0244 Oslo, Norway
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EDITOR NOTE - Thanks to Shawn, here is the email for the Norwegian Ambassador - feel free to contact here but remember, be respectful.  osloirc@state.gov
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from John Reid:
 

If the Ministry is anywhere close to correct in the estimate of 65 tons of mercury (or possibly other heavy-metal contaminant) aboard U-864, I completely agree that they must act in some way to eliminate the environmental/safety threat, and economic threat to the local fishers. I note that they have assessed the possibility of “capping” the wreck, i.e. burying it in a concrete containment vessel, and have rejected this option. I think that this is the correct decision because such structures will inevitably decay over time. This is of course exactly what has been done at Chernobyl, but the undersea environment is much more corrosive than Ukrainian air and the structure would require ongoing maintenance to be at all effective. In my view, all this is doing is deferring the environmental/health problem, quite possibly to a future where no-one will care about the war dead. Sharkhunters should not advocate in favour of such an option. In principle, I therefore support the proposed actions of the Norwegian authorities.   

 

However, despite the references of the matter to the respective war graves commissions, what I do not see in the response from the senior advisors is a commitment to respect the requirements which will be stated by those entities regarding honourable re-interment of the war dead. In my view, Sharkhunters should seek to have that commitment made overt, and that it actually happens in due course.
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from Richard Lundin:
 

Hello Harry,  as a member of your organization for many years I have watched the unfolding of this situation with U 864 with great interest. I have seen the documentary done for television and read what news articles I could find.  I dont think anyone likes the idea of disturbing a war grave. However, in this situation, with the amount of mercury that is potentially sitting there, something must be done.  I would expect the Norwegian government to show great respect for the remains of the souls lost in this wreck site.  But  to do nothing could lead to a real environmental disaster I am afraid.  I think that if the experts agree that a proactive response must be taken, then the future of the living must take precedence over those of the fallen.  Respectfully,  Richard Lundin   member #6713-2003
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from U.S. SubVet Dieter Rosellen:
 
If Norway feels the boat is a hazard to sea life it should be raised. We raised the Hunley and provided honorable funeral services for it's crew. Likewise the crew of U-864 should be afforded the same privileges. Anything less would be a travesty. Let's hope they honor the brave war victims whether it be the Norwegians , the German's or the Japanese. I would hope the country's the crew fought for would insure their family's are involved with every aspect of the recovery and burial in their homelands or returned with burial at sea.
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Navy veteran Bill Urban comments:

Read the letter in your attachment.  I honestly don't know what to comment.  I never realized that so much mercury,  (65 TONS)? could be on a submarine.  THAT is a lot of mercury my friend.  I can well understand the concerns of the locals, especially if they depend on fishing for their survival.
 
I guess my main concern as well, would be the bodies of the German sailors who were on board when it was sunk.  Having said that, I realize that some Government's and/or people's would not be concerned with disturbing the graves of the hated "Hun".  No doubt some bitter memories of the German occupation of Norway, still linger in the minds of the elders.  My cousin who was in British Intelligence was in Norway, when the German Army invaded.  Like Dunkirk, (where he had also been, when the Germans pushed the Brits back into the channel), he just barely escaped from Norway, before the occupation was complete.
 
He was involved in helping the King of Norway escape to England and set up a Government in exile, just as De Gualle of France did.  For which my cousin was summoned to the Embassy of Norway in London, in 1943 and Decorated with the "Order of St. Olav".  I was never on Subs,  (my XO when I was based overseas, LOVED sub duty.  He thrived on it) but being ex-Navy myself, I sympathise with any German official, who might be concerned with the disturbing of any bodies, on board U-864.
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from American veteran Jim Sencindiver:
 
How much mercury was on a U-Boat? That should be the first question asked by Norway. If U-864 went down due to combat damage, there's the very real probability that the mercury was released when she went down!
 
ALL Naval ships sunk in battle should be left undisturbed as a memorial to those who gave the ultimate sacrifice to their country. Just look at the USS Arizona memorial in Pearl Harbor. She is STILL leaking fuel oil after 68 years sitting on the bottom, and we leave her undisturbed to honor her dead.
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from Mike Torreson:
Hi Harry,  The Norweigian gov't is worried about mercury???  What was it used for in a sub?  Must be a really small amount if any , plus what about all the Soviet Nuke garbage lying about all over the ocean floor up around there.  Probably there are too many people working for the  Norwegian government that have to cook up things like this to show their superiors they are doing something......(it is true here too, but in epidemic proportions, and is the main reason the USA is going down the tube).............but my thoughts are best to leave U Boat alone if possible and if any GOOD reason to move it or what ever ,then the remains should be properly brought back and buried with honors in Germany.       The Hunley is a good example....had I been aboard the Hunley, I would not have minded being reintered if the historic significanc warranted bringing it back to land .   People are reburied all the time.......The key is that it be done with respect and honor............Cheerio,   Mike
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from Bill Urban:

I agree with Kapt. Kurt Diggins.
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from James Kline:
 
How can one argue with the wishes of the VDU, concerning fallen comrades?

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from Eric Mathews:

Custom on remains is this; if the ship is raised, any remains are wrapped in a shroud and reburied at sea. If the nationalities of the remains are known, the national flag that the individuals fought under covers the shrouded remains. Sea Burial should be recorded, and a wreath placed on the spot of burial after ceremony is completed. The Norwegian Navy should perform sea burial with a representative from the German Navy present. Honors should be rendered. Representative of German U-boat association should be present.
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from Rich Swanke
The possible salvage of U-864 (which I understand will begin next year) certainly raises moral, ethical, and possibly ecological questions and concerns.  This is something that I have pondered  - thanks for asking for our comments.

First, a little history.  My uncle (whom I did not know, as I was an infant) was killed during the Battle of the Bulge.  I often thought "why didn't they bring him home?"  I assume that the large number of casualties, the length of the war, and logistics of the time, prevented bringing home our fallen soldiers. The memorial, on which his name is listed,in Arbutus, Maryland seems somewhat "empty", knowing that his remains are buried in a military cemetery in, I believe, France.  I wonder if my Aunt (who had a young daughter at the time) ever felt closure, as most of us seek.  She is now in her late 80's, and sometimes talks of the day she received the telegram,  vividly recalling every minute, where she went, and whom she spoke with during those difficult days.  I have never felt comfortable asking her the question how she felt not having her husband's remains brought home.  I would suspect that she would have wanted him home, as she gets emotional, after all these years.  I think that I would want him home as well.

With regard to the remains of the men of the U-864, I would have to respect the wishes of  Kapt, Diggins, assuming that he speaks for the for German submariners, and/or the relatives of the fallen men.  There are probably few, if any, remaining close relatives or family of the men; but, their wishes should be considered as well.  It appears that the German's do not wish the remains to be disturbed, and the Norwegian Government should respect those wishes.

About 20 years ago I got mercury poisoning from eating fish at a restaurant in Baltimore.  Since the restaurant purchased their seafood from the local fish market, it was impossible to determine  exactly what country  the fish came from.  However, it was assumed that the fish were imported, from a region that was not monitored by the local government as to the purity of their seafood.  Believe me, mercury poisoning is not fun, even in a moderate form, which I apparently had.

Now the dilemma.  Do not disturb the grave of these 73 men,  and risk contamination of the local seafood with mercury, and possibly to other persons that may consume the seafood; OR,  salvage the submarine, and desecrate the burial grounds of these men. 

I think, the key element is whether or not there is the 67-70 tons of mercury actually on board.  Obviously, there is some mercury, as the Norwegian Government has confirmed this, BUT, just how much.  I assume that the German government can not confirm the cargo at this time; and, if they did, would the Norwegians even listen? Who's to know?

Assuming that the salvage takes place next year, what remains can actually be recovered and returned to Germany.  There may only be bone fragments, easily lost in the sands of the half buried keel of the sub, and never found.  In this case, I think that we are disturbing a burial ground that should not be touched. But, what if there is 70 tons of mercury on board?  Is the disturbance of the grave then justified, knowing that little, if any remains can be found, and sent home?  I would think, for the safety of the seafood that is harvested in those waters, and to protect consumers, that we have no other choice but to salvage the mercury, thus disturbing the grave. I really don't like this option, but there is probably no other solution at this time.

I understand that an alternate proposal to entomb the sub in a concrete box, but that was rejected assuming, in time, the mercury would leak; but, there is no guarantee they can salvage the mercury without a possible spill, in my opinion.  I would wish for the entombment, but that is apparently not an option.

For the safety of the seafood industry, and the health concerns of consumers, I think we have no other choice than to proceed with the salvage operation, although, the thought of disturbing this burial ground is very, very upsetting, especially after all these years.

For what it's worth, these are my thoughts and comments................

Rich Swanke
7419-2009
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from Steve Powell:
 

Disturbing a war grave should not over-ride the ecological impact this wreck could have on Norway's fishing industry.  I'm sure if this wreck were sitting in US prime fishing grounds and leaking Mercury (or radioactive material) it would be already be raised.    This salvage operation is not a low budget operation (see Mammoet's web site and animated film).   I would think human remains will be handled with dignity to the satisfaction of VDU and German government.    I plan on following this story with interest.  
Regards,                             Steve Powell 1414-LIFE-1990
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from Knights Cross holder Jürgen Oesten, Skipper of U-61, U-106 and U-861:
 
Dear Harry,
 
As I took a cargo of more than 100 tons of mercury to the far East with U - 861  I am convinced that U - 864 had the same cargo. The Norwegians should find a reasonable way of removing or cover the wreck of U - 864.
 
regards
 
Jürgen Oesten    
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from Mike Maffia:
 
Of the concern of the Norweigian authorities over U-864, raising this vessel would then open the door to disaster. I mean by this that what of all the Bio and Chemical weapons that were dumped overboard by governments since the end of WWII. Not to mention all the surplus liberty vessels that were filled with hazardious waste and sunk by the U.S. during the 70's in various deep graves. Are they not also a threat to the enviroment? Are they not also degrading and leaking? While they have no souls resiting onboard, they still pose a serious threat. I know, let's be devil's advocate here for a moment and raise every wreck on the floor of the world's oceans to save us. That is impossible, due to the cost and hazards involved, it would prove to be a worse nitemare than leaving everything at rest. Another example would be to raise some of the Axis and Allies warships from the WW II period. That would raise awarness of this mess, that the cost envolved and hazards that would be dispersed into the oceans and to disturb all these War Hero's from their final resting place. It would cause an up roar against it.
 
With the world economy in the mess it's in I would think the money could be put to better use and that there are more pressing sites that need cleaning up on land that are easlier to get to and lest costly than U-864.
 
This sounds like more political hog wash to industry. Let's see, how many other wartime wrecks or wrecks are there in that same area of the sea. All doing the same but with different or some of the same issues. Some larger or smaller. Let's name a few, small vessels, fishing boats, transports, cargo ships, warships, aircraft. It seems that some of their cargo is just as deadly and toxic as U-864 or worse. The Minister of Fisheries does not seemed concerned about them. WHY? Maybe because it is a WW II German U-boat. Seems like everything German from that period is sinister and must be disturbed or destroyed to wipe out and sanitize the history of that period as though it never happened. Whatever happened to respecting history and reporting as it really happened. In addition to preserving and respecting those places of historical importance as was the case through history, letting warships rest with their dead in PEACE, undisturbed.
 
What becomes of the wreck of U-864 if it is raised? Does it become part of a Naval Musuem and the departed given full honor's that they deserve? Or does the artificates be auctioned or disappear or destroyed and the remains of U-864 scrapped? All questions that have not been answered as of yet.
 
I do not believe they should be disturbed. They should be allowed to remain  in their eternal rest undisturbed, but by nature and God. The excuse of worries over damage to the fishing industry is most likely associated with greed. Regarding mercury or fuel oil or other containments still aboard, they are of such small nature compared to the surrounding sea. I am sure they will continue to be dispersed in the future as they have since they first came to rest. If left undisturbed, the dispersal rate will be small amounts over a distant time with nature reducing the containments to very small ppm's and with almost no effect on the enviroment.
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from Jack Balch:
 
I remember, several years back, there was a story in the newspapers about a U-Boat sunk in the Gulf of Mexico. It seems that the sub did not settle on the bottom but kind of "floated just off the bottom" back and forth with the tides. There was a big clamor to bring it up saying the boat used mercury as a ballast. At the time I had just finished reading Herbert Werner's book, "Iron Coffins," and I had written to him telling him I enjoyed it. He was living in Brielle, NJ at the time. I wrote again asking his opinion on this boat. He wrote back saying that this boat, like all U-Boats sunk, were "War Graves" and should be left alone. He said that mercury was never used as ballast and this was just an excuse to bring the boat up.
Also, when John Chatterton and his partner were diving the "mystery U-Boat," the German government expressed laws on disturbing the war graves regardless of whose territorial waters it was in. Has the German government made any comments on 864? They threatened Chatteron with legal action.
Please excuse my ramblings I just wanted to express my views as a member.
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from Chuck Myers:
 
Hello Harry:
Good for you for standing up for the dignity of those sailors who rest in U-864's remains, their grave and tomb.  I support your stand on this.  Keep up the good work.  Wonder if they would do the same if it was their sailors?
Chuck
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from David Oearn:
 
Greetings Harry,
 
Well you had asked for comments on the mercury removal.
 
As I'm not affiliated with Norwegians, and I'm also not connected to any u-boat veterans, therefore I could view this objectively.
 
I think the Norwegian government's request to remove the mercury is justified on safety grounds. Although I'm not a chemist, but they must have reasons to assert that the mercury will affect their fishing industry. And I believe this must be because mercury is poisonous.
 
Clearly, nobody wants an international incident with either the Norwegian fish population decline or worse yet, mercury laden fish exported from Norway. Ingested mercury is poisonous. I don't want poisonous fish, just like how we had poisonous milk and biscuits from China.
 
If there is no mercury on board, then of course the whole incident wouldn't have surfaced. So prove it once and for all by sending an expedition team to confirm if there is mercury there. This cannot be left to guesses as to what we think is on board.
 
If it comes to the point that the iron grave has to be disturbed, then a proper procedure should be carried out. Their remains should be brought back to Germany for proper burial.
 
It does not matter what Kurt Diggins said. What matters is whether what he said can be justified or not.
 
The real question is who is going to pay for the removal of the remains. While the Norwegian government is motivated enough (because it affects thier fisheries), I believe they will pay for the removal of the mercury.
 
But the removal of crew remains is another matter. I feel the German authorities should pay for it as it is German property, and will be brought back to Germany. They might not be motivated to do it though, as there is no benefit for them.
 
Well, this is how I see it.
 
Keep up the great work.

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from U.S. Coast Guard veteran Chris Wills:
As for disturbing the boat I'm completely against it.  That's the final resting place of 73 brave men.  I'm with Kapt. Diggins, let them rest in peace.  That's like raiding any other boat that was sunk because there might be gold on it.  Anyway, that's my input.
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from Mary Meyers:
I say leave them be!  I would not think of removing those men.  That is what they died for-their country.  Leave them be!  I personally would not want someone removing my remains if it were me.
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from Neil Haglund:

Mercury? I would think if it was going to leak it would have done so by now.  As to disturbing the remains. Some of the family might want their sons back for burial. As long as they're handling with diginity, why not. Just because the one guy says that's what he would want doesn't mean they all feel that way. Or did they express that back then?
Neil A. Haglund

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